Ennis...Sydney Anglicans can't even get on with fellow Anglicans so what hope have they got of speaking with atheists ?
Well Jake...at least atheists aren't being damned as heretics ...like Christians who find it hard to surrender to the Sydney Anglican principles of ...
OUR POINT OF VIEW IS THAT OF GOD'S...SO WE ARE NEVER WRONG...
AND BECAUSE WE ARE NEVER WRONG...THEN WE NEVER HAVE TO ADMIT ERROR...
AND WE DON'T GIVE A DARN ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK...BECAUSE YOU ARE WRONG AND WE ARE RIGHT!
Jake...that's called faith ...Sydney Anglican style!
Sydney Anglicans create more atheists than any other sect in Australia.
ReplyDeleteBased on what evidence?
ReplyDeleteOr am I supposed to believe you just because you assert it?
You sound a lot like the caricature of Sydney Anglican's yourself.
Sam, it is based on the census data from 2006 and 2011. Of the 39K who ceased identifying as Anglican Australia wide over that period, 31K were from Sydney. So about 80% of all Anglicans leaving the church in Australia were leaving from Sydney.
DeleteThanks for the reply. Those numbers are very interesting. I wonder if, for the sake of those who read these sorts of posts but belong to a different tribe (like me), this sort of information should accompany ones claims so that they don't just come across as assertion.
DeleteIs there evidence that the 31,000 mentioned left the church altogether, or whether they joined another denomination?
I would also be interested to know what percentage of Australian Anglicans are from Sydney. Because if Sydney has a much higher number of parishioners, and the church nationwide has experienced a general decrease in numbers (which I'm sure it has) then that might go some of the way to explain why so many of the leavers come from Sydney.
Sam, I'm not Anonymous I, I'm Anonymous II butting in. I'm reluctant to do your research for you Sam, but you seem like such a nice young man...
DeleteAs far as I know the 2011 census figures for the other denominations in Sydney haven’t been published yet. But the number of those in Sydney who now identify themselves as having ‘no religion’ has increased by about 200,000 – one of the highest per capita percentages in the country, despite the disproportionate immigration of the religious into Sydney. Could this be because the Sydney Anglicans give religion such a bad name here? I don’t know. The Sydney Caflicks over the same period have increased by about 45,000 (but I somehow don’t think this comes from Anglican desertions).
The Sydney Anglicans constitutes about 20% of Anglicans nationwide – yet, as I said, contribute 80% of the losses. There’s no way of getting away from it – they’re trashing the brand!
Anonymous II, sorry for the mistaken identity (Is it racist to say that all Anonymouses look the same to me?)
DeleteThanks again for the information. I am not surprised by the massive increase in 'no religion'. Perhaps the conservative brand in Sydney is having a polarising effect and causing once 'nominal' or 'census christians' to abandon the label. If this is so, is it necessarily a bad thing?
But the 20% - 80% statistic is very interesting. Something I will have to think about.
No Sam, I’m afraid I’m used to it, I'm no longer hurt by that.
DeleteYour conjecture about the polarisation of religion might be correct. It is suggested in much of the research on religious identification around the world. That is, a progressive shedding of the least actively religious from the ranks of those who identify as religious.
Whether it's a good thing or not obviously depends on your perspective. What it certainly is not good for from a certain religious point of view is the political influence of the conservative religions – witness the gay marriage debate.
The 80/20 stat is interesting. What is also interesting is why the Sydney diocese has not released the aggregate figures from the 2011 National Church Life Survey for the diocese. I don’t want to be too cynical, but could it be because attendance figures are going the same way?
mi scusi
DeleteThat should read: ...the 'waning' political influence...
Sam if I sound like a caricature of Sydney Anglicanism...then my work is done!
ReplyDeleteSorry Jane, I wasn't referring to your post, but rather the comment by Anonymous.
ReplyDeleteAnonIII butting in... I quit Christianity from the other side of the country because the sydney anglicans have spread their misogyny and bigotry here via moore college and afes. And I wasnt even anglican to start with! I am aware of many others like myself - so I would consider that census data as a minimum number of apostates as a direct influence of these hateful people.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous III, I think your case is probably not unusual. As with the religious right in the US, the likes of the Sydney Anglicans taint, by association, the whole idea of Christianity with their bigotry. Those whose Christianity is more liberal and kindly are turned off more so and hence the drift to no-religion starts from the children of liberal Christians. For the children of the more conservative and controlling churches the bigotry is not so off-putting - it is encouraged by the doctrines and practices of their churches - so they tend to leave religion at a slower rate (for now). Well, that's my theory anyway and it's not without its support in the sociological literature.
Deletewhich sociological literature?
ReplyDeleteIs that you Dobby? If not, you've certainly got his manners.
DeleteNontheless I'll be gracious enought to answer your question. I'm thinking of surveys from the US (and some from Australia) where a major reason yoof give for rejecting religion is its perceived judgemental attitudes toward sexual difference, in particular homosexuality. Studies by Barna, Pew, CRA and McCrindle bear this out.
Combine this with the differential in rates of decline of liberal and conservative churches, and perhaps David Voas' studies of the patterns of decline in churches in Western Europe and I think there is a good case to be made.
Perhaps I was a bit hasty to judge that as a curt question, if not forgive me.
Delete