I know I’m breaking the comment policy here by not using my real full name,
but I hope you still publish my comment, because there is a reason for
anonymity.
The issue of the status of women in the church and in relationships is a huge and potentially hurtful issue. I’m normally a pretty self-assured woman, but commenting here, where people could see my real name – people who know me could see me saying something they think is wrong or even heretical – is frankly terrifying.
I don’t think that I am meant to be lesser than men simply because of my gender. I know those who promote submission say that isn’t what they preach, but that’s how it works in practice. That’s how it has always felt to me – that no matter my capabilities, I’m never to be ‘in charge’ because I have the wrong genitalia. Men are always the leader, women always submit. Sorry, but I don’t think God sees me as less capable just because I’m female.
I’d also remind you that the second party in each of the three relationships listed was considered property of the male of the household when this was written. Paul elevated women, children, and slaves to a height that was radical for that society. Pushing wifely submission now, 2000 years on, seems like a regression, whereas Paul’s instructions were – at the time – hugely progressive.
I’ve already said a lot (and given I’m not following your rules I’m unsure you’ll even publish this) but there’s one more thing I’d like to mention. This article and all the discussion on submission and roles always ignores singles. We’re the invisible members of the church, and many of us are getting really frustrated and tired of it. We’re subtly told we’re inferior or incomplete because we aren’t married. Women like me get the subtle message (and for some people, they’re told it outright) that we’re too assertive, too feminist, not the good submissive Christian type. You may not like to hear it, but there are those of us who are in the church but don’t fit the Christian happy families stereotype. And many feel hurt and discouraged and ignored because we don’t see the church acknowledging us. Instead, we see the church getting narrower and narrower in the acceptable ways to be a good Christian. I worry this is pushing people away – I worry it will push me away from the institutional church.
I’ve rambled too long and too far from the original post, but I hope you do read and consider my concerns, whether you agree with them or not.
Say Bill ...can people remain anonymous when putting forward their point of view at the Sydney Synod ?
No Calam... the clerics in the gallery want to know who they can jeer at, and freeze out of the Sydney diocese... anyway Calam that lady won't be taken seriously because she didn't use Biblical references to punctuate every sentence ...Sydney Anglicans like Mark Thompson and Phillip Jensen, won't be able to understand a word she is saying!
The issue of the status of women in the church and in relationships is a huge and potentially hurtful issue. I’m normally a pretty self-assured woman, but commenting here, where people could see my real name – people who know me could see me saying something they think is wrong or even heretical – is frankly terrifying.
I don’t think that I am meant to be lesser than men simply because of my gender. I know those who promote submission say that isn’t what they preach, but that’s how it works in practice. That’s how it has always felt to me – that no matter my capabilities, I’m never to be ‘in charge’ because I have the wrong genitalia. Men are always the leader, women always submit. Sorry, but I don’t think God sees me as less capable just because I’m female.
I’d also remind you that the second party in each of the three relationships listed was considered property of the male of the household when this was written. Paul elevated women, children, and slaves to a height that was radical for that society. Pushing wifely submission now, 2000 years on, seems like a regression, whereas Paul’s instructions were – at the time – hugely progressive.
I’ve already said a lot (and given I’m not following your rules I’m unsure you’ll even publish this) but there’s one more thing I’d like to mention. This article and all the discussion on submission and roles always ignores singles. We’re the invisible members of the church, and many of us are getting really frustrated and tired of it. We’re subtly told we’re inferior or incomplete because we aren’t married. Women like me get the subtle message (and for some people, they’re told it outright) that we’re too assertive, too feminist, not the good submissive Christian type. You may not like to hear it, but there are those of us who are in the church but don’t fit the Christian happy families stereotype. And many feel hurt and discouraged and ignored because we don’t see the church acknowledging us. Instead, we see the church getting narrower and narrower in the acceptable ways to be a good Christian. I worry this is pushing people away – I worry it will push me away from the institutional church.
I’ve rambled too long and too far from the original post, but I hope you do read and consider my concerns, whether you agree with them or not.
Say Bill ...can people remain anonymous when putting forward their point of view at the Sydney Synod ?No Calam... the clerics in the gallery want to know who they can jeer at, and freeze out of the Sydney diocese... anyway Calam that lady won't be taken seriously because she didn't use Biblical references to punctuate every sentence ...Sydney Anglicans like Mark Thompson and Phillip Jensen, won't be able to understand a word she is saying!
There is a letter from a Rev Kate Haggar in the Sydney Morning herald defending the submission of women. She says she does not want to be a rector. So what, I never wanted to be a School Principal but would have been furious if my gender prevented me. Googling discovers she is at St Augustine's Neutral Bay where David Ould is the assistant priest. She is involved in the children's work, I bet she is never asked to preach in the main services, and while single, that is okay as she cares for her nephews and nieces. I feel very sorry for her.
ReplyDeletehanks for the info Brian
ReplyDelete