Michael Jensen writes a book called... Sydney Anglicanism: An Apology



by you ... when you failed to understand our orthodox theological autocracy ...so let me explain why we have been so misunderstood...so you can apologise to us!

Michael Jensen has written a book called Sydney Anglicanism: An Apology but the review reads more like Sydney Anglicanism : Just Misunderstood! ... "Sydney's evangelical Anglicans have been the focus of a great deal of controversy and criticism in the Anglican world. Their blend of conservatism towards doctrine and radicalism towards the institutional church has made them something of an enigma to other Anglicans. But what makes them really tick? Michael Jensen provides a unique insider's view into the convictional world of Sydney Anglicanism. He responds to a number of the common misunderstandings about Sydney Anglicanism and challenges Sydney Anglicans to see themselves as making a positive contribution to the wider church and to the city they inhabit."

  






But Bill I thought Sydney Anglicans were making a fabulous contribution to Sydney and the world's sexism and homophobia policies! I reckon them Sydney Anglicans in them fine Universities, would out do them Sydney University Young Liberal Party members in the field of sexism and homophobia... I mean Bill them young Liberal Party Club Party folk have only got Alan Jones to incite hatred...but them young Sydney Anglican evangelicals have got someone far superior in Phillip Jensen. They both incite hatred in the same manner and continuously preach their point of view...but Phillip Jensen does it in God's name.

Sydney Anglicans follow a gay man as an evangelical leader...but can he teach them love, compassion and empathy?

You'd have more chance of teaching Alan Jones about compassion than you would Phillip Jensen!

 UK Anglican, Vaughn Roberts, who heads The Proclamation Trust, has recently confessed to being same-sex attracted. Unlike Haydn Sennitt, Vaughan has not been healed through Jesus yet and therefore doesn't have a wife. World leader in 'praying the gay away', Haydn Sennitt proclaims...  If there is nothing you can do but pray, then pray for Roberts and other public leaders such as myself with unwanted same-sex attraction who are doing great things for God’s Kingdom, but have the world, Satan and his demons, and even some fellow Christians against them. Attacks against us are relentless and being in public ministry makes us particularly vulnerable to temptation and attack. So please pray and, if you can, encourage Roberts for his courage. It takes a real man to do what he has done this week.

Calam, I thought it took a real man to speak out against the persecution of gays instead of joining forces with a group formed out of bigotry. I find conflicted gays to be very damaging to other people at times, when the effect of the homophobia that they experience in the name of God, internalises, and creates incredible self hate that is projected onto others.

Missy, that Mr Roberts is closely aligned with them Sydney Anglicans .. he's taught Sydney Anglican men, how to be men...he  features heavily on  that  Anglican Church League website...but I notice they haven't published anything about his sexual orientation...he's also linked closely with that other great leader who specialises in same-sex attraction, David Peterson,who teaches at Cornhill Sydney, which is run by The Proclamation Trust...Wouldn't it be funny is all them Proclamation fellas were all suppressing same-sex attraction... as Haydn says... "It all goes to show that one can never ever assume that no-one has this issue, not even well-gifted evangelical leaders, and one can never assume SSA people are not in church fellowship or leadership."

 

Yep, it's all well and good...just so long as those SSA people don't want equality in marriage! What a shame Haydn's prayers didn't save Roy Clements from his SSA addiction!
 

Rt Rev Christopher Senyonjo of Uganda is among the recipients of the annual Global Citizen Awards...and what award will Peter Jensen get upon his retirement?

Leonardo, over at Eruptions at the Foot of the Volcano reports that Rt Rev Christopher Senyonjo of Uganda has received one of the Clinton Global Citizens Awards  for his courageous advocacy on behalf of LGBTQ persons in Uganda.
In 2001,  Senyonjo's life changed forever when he met several gay and lesbian young people who had been rejected by their churches. “They had lost jobs and been expelled from school. Some of them were on the verge of committing suicide.” Senyonjo gave them a radical message for their time and place: “If you are gay or lesbian, God made you and loves you that way, and you should accept yourselves.”
Once word of his compassionate advice reached his successors in the Anglican hierarchy in Uganda, there was a firestorm. Senyonjo was asked to “condemn” the people under his care “and convert them to something else.” Senyonjo said he would not. “I cannot see God where there is no love,” he said, “I would rather go with the truth.”
In reaction, he was expelled from the church he had served for 34 years. More significantly for his own survival, the church stripped him of his pension. “The cost has been great,” Senyonjo said of his post-retirement ministry. “It is by the grace of God that I have been able to survive. By the strength of God I have been able to stand.”
The Bishop is touring the United States and Europe, sponsored by the Episcopal LGBT group Integrity USA (among other organizations) to raise awareness about the draconian law being considered by the Ugandan parliament, which would make homosexuality illegal, in some cases punishable by death. The law has been the result, in part, of lobbying by American evangelical groups, and has the partial support of Bishop Henry Orombi, Anglican Primate of Uganda....

As mainline churches in the United States have become more accepting of LGBT people on issues like ordination and blessing of same-sex relationships, conservatives in these denominations, particularly the Anglican Communion, have appealed to the Global South to seek affirmation for their homophobia.

“There has been an attempt,” Johnson added, “to marginalize the more tolerant Anglican churches in the United Kingdom, United States, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia, suggesting that the center of the ‘true’ faith—that is, the faith that is still discriminatory towards LGBT people and women—is in Africa and the developing world.”
“The African voices that have dared to stand up against overwhelming spiritual, societal, and governmental pressure, like Bishop Senyonjo, Canon Gideon Byamugisha, Bishop Desmond Tutu, and the South African Council of Churches, have exposed the lie that these dividing lines are as strict as they have been portrayed,” Johnson said. “There are multiple voices and perspectives throughout the Anglican Communion.”

Say Calam...that Orombi fella has close ties with Peter Jensen you know...oh and did you hear they might be selling Bishop's Court...I suppose they've got to fund Peter Jensen's pension from somewhere...seeing he lost over $160 million of the diocese's money through incompetent stock market gambling... and profits were to help fund the persecution of GLBTQ world wide...especially in Africa!...Yes hasn't Peter Jensen left a wonderful legacy?

Christians stand against the Australian Christian Lobby

The Sydney Star Observer has published an online petition asking PM Gillard to meet wit Christians for marriage equality. You can sign the petition here
Almost 16,000 people have called on Prime Minister Julia Gillard to meet with pro-gay marriage Christians to counter the Australian Christian Lobby’s influence in Canberra. Melbourne’s Collins Street Baptist Church Reverend Carolyn Francis began her online petition in August which has now collected about 15,900 signatures. She told the Star Observer the petition had just outgrown the Australian Christian Lobby’s estimated 15,000 members.

Kel Richards interviews Phillip Jensen on marriage...and Phillip says...Widows and orphans are disadvantaged without husbands or fathers because no one will provide for them...and that's why he wants to make all women completely dependent on their husbands... so if something goes wrong widows and children can become destitute!

Sydney Anglican, Kel Richards, who is well known as a radio personality, engages in a conversation with Phillip Jensen on the role of men in marriage...that's because focusing on the role of female submission in Sydney Anglican marriages, has recently gone down like a lead balloon !

The interview is the greatest bit of illogical spindoctoring, since the  Sydney Anglican boycott of Lambeth. The conversation tries to camoflague the misogyny that is disguised as Sydney Anglican complementarianism.Kel explains that equal doesn't mean identical...and Phillip adds sameness is not the same as equality!

Yeah Kel...heard that one before...what radio station did you say you're on...is it that Christian one...2CH?

Phillip goes onto explain that the main purpose of marriage is to follow Adam and Eve's lineage, and  procreate,  to build interconnected families that create a society...a bit like Jensen family's takeover of the Sydney Anglican diocese.  Phillip says couples can't make up marriage vows because that's illegal ...but if you do change them, then the Sydney Anglican version of female submission, is the best way to go, because it heightens the role of men! Phillip does point out that wedding vows for a woman beyond child bearing years are alterd to exclude procreation.

Listen Phillip...we're beyond all that procreation stuff...so can you alter the vows to marry us?

Phillip goes onto tell Kel, that there are two other reasons to get married..and that's so the man, like Adam, has a helper and is not left alone...and Sydney Anglican women like Eve, can fulfil the male's sexual needs, so both are not tempted with sexual immorality.
I agree Phillip...that's why God created Steve here for me!

Phillip explains to Kel, that marriage based on love, puts enormous pressure on a relationship ...and marriage is really about raising Godly children. Phillip explains that couples should stay together, even if they are unhappily married...unless there is domestic violence involved ...and then it's a criminal matter

but make sure you photograph the bruises...just incase no one believes you... when the role of the man is heightened... and you no longer have any autonomy or power in the relationship, or within the church community!

Kel goes on to point out that marriage is reciprocal and not identical ...and the logic just keeps getting better ...when Phillip explains that marriage is asymmetrical...and based on inequality...but Phillip adds ...Sydney Anglican marriage inequality is based on the husband providing, protecting and laying down his life for his wife, so she becomes totally dependent. As Phillip explains...world leaders find this approach as domineering, controlling and exercising authority over ...because it removes the woman's personal empowerment, and leaves the her vulnerable... if the husband does turn out to be a louse, or if he does leave her, or dies...but if a widow wasn't left destitute, then Christians like Phillip Jensen wouldn't be able to help anyone, except orphans.

Bill you ever heard Phillip Jensen talk on how, when he was young... he heard that spending time with widows and orphans was the Christian thing to do.Well he couldn't find any orphans...so he drove the widows in nursing homes mad... but he only liked the nice ones...the unhappy or sick widows...  and the ones not so nice, by his standards...were like  them feminists to Phillip... and that's why Phillip tells all these young Sydney Anglican women how to behave!
Seriously Calam...that man has got some real issues with women...or at least the ones that don't allow him to patronise them.

Phillip concludes his talk by saying...Men need to be part of the marriage and 'man up', so for a man to 'man up' a woman must agree to submit! Phillip says that it is combative for two people to say... "I will treat you like you treat me!"

Now isn't it a shame that so many Sydney Anglican men have taken after Phillip Jensen ...and are completely unable to understand Matthew 7:12...and that's because they are offended if a  woman or a gay person preaches in front of them...sounds like sexism and bigotry to me.! Bill are you sure that Kel fella is on a radio program that extends beyond the world of Sydney Anglicanism?

Sydney Star Observer posts... Anglicans reject Jensen Comments

Sydney Star Observer reports...A Christian group has hit out at the Australian Christian Lobby (ACL) and the Anglican Archbishop of Sydney over claims gay men have worse health than smokers.
Earlier this month ACL Managing director Jim Wallace caused uproar for suggesting the life expectancy of gay men was lower than smokers.
Wallace’s comments were supported the following week on ABC’s Q&A program by Sydney Anglican Archbishop Peter Jensen which provoked further backlash against the ACL and Jensen himself.
Christian group Changing Attitudes Australia (CAA) rejected the comments and said the ACL is not representative of all Christians, nor Jensen of all Anglicans.
“It is an attempt by the conservative lobby to de-humanise homosexuals, to try and paint being gay as a lifestyle choice,” CAA spokesman Reverend Andrew Eaton said.
“Being gay is not a choice. Being lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or intersex is naturally occurring in the human condition and should be celebrated as God-given and every bit as equal and normal as being heterosexual.”
Eaton said health statistics for gay men show a wide range of reasons why life expectancy may be shorter.
“The most stunning of which is suicide commonly associated with shame and depression from being demonised for being gay,” he said.
“Despite Archbishop Jensen on Q&A himself recognising that suicide in the LGBTI community could be associated with shame, stemming from statements made by conservative parts of the church including himself, he did not apologise that he may have contributed to the intolerable load on some gay and lesbian people.
“Changing Attitudes Australia wants to assure LGBTI people there are many in the Anglican Church who welcome all people into its life, and that the richness of God’s love is fully experienced when it does.”

Yeah Bill and Sydney has a group that meets too...for all those Anglicans who don't think Jesus would approve of discrimination.

Wayne Swan says some US Republicans are cranks and crazies...has he looked in his own backyard for the loons?

 

 

The Australian Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan has delivered a speech labelling some elements of the United States Republican party as "cranks and crazies". And speaking of "cranks and crazies", Russell Powell over at the Sydney Anglican Network Portal, reported as one of his top 5 stories...Same sex marriage voted down. This story was hard to find in that form on many of the news web sites. Journos seemed more intent on generating outrage over Cory Bernardi that the bigger story of the actual vote was buried.

Speaking of Corey Bernardi...is he the same fellow who features over at The Global Mail...where Mike Seccombe says...

If You Like Sarah Palin, You’ll Absolutely Love Cory Bernardi

He’s not just a homophobic, Islamophobic, climate-change denying South Australian senator, he’s an ideological entrepreneur, importing the Tea Party’s ‘astroturf’ techniques and now training others in the faux-grassroots campaigns first cultivated by the American far right

And the comments are closed over at The Briefing ...regarding complementarianism and domestic violence

 

Over at Matthias Media's, The Briefing website, Phillip Jensen's 'Love and Subjucation' has whipped up a bit of a storm...in regard to the relationship between domestic and complementarianism. 
Sam Freney  21 September, 2012 at 11:04 am said:

Suzanne,This whole area is something that is indeed very serious, and no-one here is treating lightly. In particular, you clearly have some specific allegations that ought to be dealt with properly and seriously, not in this kind of impersonal context.The Sydney Anglican Diocese has a set of careful and detailed procedures in place to work through the sorts of allegations you have suggested. I urge you to contact the Professional Standards Unit on (02) 9265 1514 or at psu@sydney.anglican.asn.au.I’m going to close off this thread now, not as a sign of dismissal of your concerns, but because it is so important. I don’t want this to be the forum to air these complaints because it’s important for all sides to do this kind of thing properly. Again, contact the people who can deal properly with this matter.

I've got to admire Craig Swartz for acknowledging that some controlling men are attracted to some Christian women because of their submissiveness ...and that abusive Christian husbands will use Bible verses to maintain control and justify their actions.  ...so it's good that Phillip Jensen, the chief educator of women in complementarianism...advises them in what to do when faced with abusive relationships... I suppose if every man was as perfect as Jesus...then every woman would be safe in submitting...Anyway, enough theology...I read a story once...one of them church and domestic violence intrigues...so 'Let's Ask Phillip' what these  women should do...

Heather’s timidness was noticeable, as she sidled up and asked  Joan if she could have a moment. Tears began streaming down Heather’s cheeks, as Joan ushered her out into the garden to prevent a scene developing. Joan knew that tongues often wagged. As Heather sat beside Joan sobbing, she disclosed all manner of abuse that was inflicted upon her, when her outraged spouse heard of her newly found associates. In his mind these so called feminist lesbians, were deliberately offending him by filling his wife’s head with egalitarian rubbish! These women hadn’t explained to Heather, that freedom of thought came at a psychological and physical price. Preston gave his wife one of the finest lessons in submission. Her head and body ached from the beating, but she finally understood the Brotherhood’s message... SUBMISSION IS THE ONLY WAY TO FREEDOM. Joan sat speechless with her arm around Heather’s shoulder, as she unburdened herself of this man’s guilt. All Joan could do was comfort her, and try to find something profound to say. It seemed profanities were best left to Preston, because at that moment, Heather caught a glimpse of Preston approaching. She began to tremble uncontrollably, as he told her that her in-laws were missing her presence. His Cheshire Cat smile, his rigid body and his clenched fists, digging deeply into the sides of his thighs, gave Joan a vision of the man who Heather had described.

Heather cowered as she arose from the seat. She had been summoned and followed submissively. She was scared and isolated, and under extreme pressure from Preston’s family. Once engulfed at this level within this sect, it was nearly impossible to find a way out. Her whole life was built around the church and even her parents boasted of their daughter’s prestigious marriage.  She knew what was at stake and Preston would destroy her before she did him...

Hang on...there's more...it's a great book...and with plenty of intrigue

After a serious discussion, the lawyers were summoned. Preston agreed to refrain from contacting Joan and Beth’s employer, if they signed an affidavit, stating that Preston had not hit his wife, and that the women were involved in rumour mongering to discredit him.  A further clause was added which stated that litigation would proceed if this meeting and its purpose, were ever disclosed outside the walls of the meeting room.

All three women were stripped of all their responsibilities within the church and were left with tarnished reputations, as the lesbian rumour was carefully spread throughout the church community and their silence was guaranteed with threats and litigation.

“Checkmate” was Preston’s response as he left the room.

 I know that story Calam...it's called Double Jeopardy...that's your livlihood can't get threatened for being gay anymore...well at least not when you work in the public sector!




That story sounds like a story about physical and spiritual abuse...not unlike the sexual assault of children...didn't those men pray to God and tell those women that coersion was because God loved them ...like those pedophile priests do...and then didn't those in charge ...give additional assistance to the perpetrator? 

Sydney Anglican, Sam Anderson, says orthodoxy is not offensive ...just repulsive





How can Moore College Students find the face of Christian orthodoxy repulsive? 







 Well Christian... let me explain ...because we need a discussion now ...because people have lost respect for Sydney Anglican arrogance ...and its refusal to listen to real people...because the only people we relate to are 2D theoretical theological 'paper doll' constructs ...Well Christian....Sydney Anglicans and Moore College students ...like their prejudice and discrimination ...delivered with smile...oh and when it involves violence and death ...then a calm silence ...is always the best tact... when offering support to bullies!

1. Is Sam Anderson  the same Sam Anderson who commented on Calam's blog? 
2. The Rev. Dr. Christian TrollMay 2, 2012 8:42 PM
3. No, little George, I don't think I'm welcome at all. You're displaying the renowned Jensensist predilection for lying again

1. Sam AndersonSeptember 10, 2012 8:41 PM

Your comments are repulsive. I'm not sure how George manages to respond to you with such grace, or why he replies at all: your comments paint you as an angry, illogical, antagonistic little man acting brave as he hides behind the anonymity afforded by his sunglasses, and the internet.

1. 
   Calamity JaneSeptember 12, 2012 12:46 AM
   Sam ...I don't find Christian Troll offensive at all. It's those who turn a blind eye to the damaging effects of orthodoxy, in my mind, who are truly offensive.
    
    
 
2. 
   Sam AndersonSeptember 19, 2012 4:51 PM
   Jane: First, I did not say I found Troll's comments offensive - I said I found them repulsive. And I do. Perhaps that is the intention of his persona, in which case he is succeeding.
   
   Secondly, you lack credibility when you say that you don't find his behaviour offensive at all. An objective outsider would no doubt conclude that his tone, manner and many of his comments would offend the recipient. Again, I think this is Troll's aim.
   
   Finally, addressing the logic of your comment: Is offensive behaviour/speech is nullified by the fact that one perceives the recipients behaviour/speech to be offensive?
   
   Are the acts of violence by Muslim extremists last week acceptable because they find the views expressed in the film offensive?
   
   The means do not justify the ends. Especially when one claims to be a Christian.
    

Them St Augustine boys are sure pragmatic ...and miss nuances unless, of course, they are their own ...Sam obviously didn't read the link he was given ...and I spent hours explaining to one of these orthodox folk ...how David Ould's rationale worked...you know the one where...if you are concerned about the welfare of young women submitting to men... then you don't like the Bible...and I'm half illiterate!...then what can you say about Lionel Windsor... I mean he only learnt 2 weeks ago what submission meant in the real world...and that was after encouraging his wife to tell everyone through the world-wide web how she submits to Lionel!... By God those Sunday sermons must be a hum dinger, Bill!

Lionel Windsor wants to know why people are so keen for Jesus to be married?

Well that easy Ennis...everyone wants to know does Mary submit!

No Mary I'll only marry you if you promise to stop hanging around me and the apostles when I'm preaching...and that you agree to limit your activities to baking for me and the boys, eventhough you can't cook...and never speak about God in front of my male friends mates...because my ego is so fragile that the only way I can feel like a man is by creating a heirarchical social order based on gender stereotypes...and to prove your subservient worth ....I expect you to express your agreement to remain submissive to me, as part of our wedding vows...cause there is nothing that you as a female can teach me...eventhough Lionel Windor finally found out the modern meaning of the word 'submit' from a woman ...and why the general community was in uproar!

Someone tell Lisa Nolland that the Australian beastiality expert, Corey Bernardi is on his way to the UK to lecture young conservatives in consensual sex between humans and animals!



Yes...that's right...two tickets on the first available flight to London and no stopover in Malaysia!

The Australian senator who was sacked as an aide to the country's opposition leader for linking homosexuality to bestiality is due to attend an event for young British Conservatives this weekend. Speaking during a debate on gay marriage in the Australian Senate on Tuesday, Liberal Cory Bernardi said allowing same-sex couples to marry would be a step on the road to allowing people to having consensual sex with animals.

 

Ain't it lucky Bill...that so many heterosexual folk have gay relos and friends... if we didn't we might think very poorly of SSA folk...when reading Bernardi's stuff?

Too right Calam...isn't it a shame that politicians like Abbott and Cheney put politics over their own folk just to appease the conservative vote...but I suppose they are not as bad as religious leaders who use orthodoxy to divide families and ruin lives!

Haydn Sennitt at Liberty Christan Ministries Inc investigates the gay gene



I haven't got the "gay" gene?

 

Well studying the work of Lisa Nolland and those at Anglican Mainstream... I'd reckon you'd better start plucking chickens ...instead of stuffing yourself with them... as an excuse to protest same-sex marriage!



Liberty Christian Ministries Inc has posted some ground breaking research, denying the existence of the gay gene. One paper was called  'The Genesis of Same Sex Attraction'  and it was written by a GP who help found Liberty Christian Ministries Inc.

Say Ennis is that the same GP who helped write "What Some of You Were"... you know where he wrote the chapter called...'Is Homosexuality Biologically Determined?'
What ... you mean that book where people tell their stories about their lifelong struggle with same-sex attraction, homosexual porn and  battles to remain faithful to their wives?



Oh...and the other article called  'My Genes Made Me Do It', ...is written by Neil and Briar Whitehead...the very same authors who posted an article about brain plasticity on Anglican Mainstream. ... oh boys are you and your horses being served?

Has LIBERAL senator, Corey Bernardi been attending Lisa Nolland's Gay Leper conferences... or do all homophobic bigots believe that homosexuals have sex with animals?

Is this Corey Bernardi's vision of the human race after same-sex marriage is legalised?

LIBERAL senator Cory Bernardi has been forced to resign as shadow parliamentary secretary to Tony Abbott following his remarks linking gay marriage to bestiality.

And Ennis...Christians like Samuel Chua over at The Briefing... cry persecution and the need for Christians to grow a thick hide... please! Sam Chua ...on 19 September, 2012 at 12:33 pm said over at 'The Briefing' website that Christians are being persecuted ...

"Thick skin we need indeed. Our lives are not at risk, so why should we fear being called a bigot for stating what we believe the Christian message is? I’m reminded of the reason why the Pharisees sought to stone Jesus during his ministry: The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” – John 10:33

Yeah Jake...these guys are not being asked to marry GLBTI people and they have all their rights but want to bring their religious prejudices into the public arena...They are fighting for the right to discriminate and keep GLBTI people as second rate citizens

Say Bill... have those Anglican Mainstream sexperts...Lisa Nolland and Chris Sugden flown into Australia to meet their Sydney Anglican GAFCON homophobic allies?  ...cause it seems like Corey's been reading some of the content on beastiality from Anglican Mainstream's,UK, Gay Leper Conference?

A Sydney Anglican at The Briefing gives Sandy Grant the marriage formula for female submission

Sandy Grant asks of those who express concern about Sydney Anglican headship and submission...If you were to become convinced that the NT teaches headship and submission (properly understood and safeguarded) as part of its overall teaching on marriage more broadly, would you accept that?

And this comment speaks for itself...

David Adams on 19 September, 2012 at 10:33 am said:

Whenever I read the observations of orthodox Protestant teachers on the question of gender, I become downhearted, and wish another communion was available to us—one that was not orthodox, and not liberal either. One of the most harmful problems in which our intellectual culture is involved is the failure to carry out a detailed investigation, through our studies of language, into the nature of sense. Because we have not done this, sometimes we ‘discover’ universal theological propositions in the biblical writings, imagining that they are plainly expressed, and that identifying them is simple, when we are merely imagining.

Sense can be found because it is represented explicitly, because it is available for deduction, or because it can be discovered by the evaluation of probabilities. The traditional Protestant view about gender is universal, that is to say it applies to all members of a class.

Universal sentences which can be true or false are unambiguously universal; they are in documents or passages whose explicitly delineated purpose is to communicate universal positions with respect to the theme dealt with, and they take forms like, ‘All X’s whatsoever are Y’s’. Otherwise sentences which can be true or false are indefinite, particular or singular.

In the biblical writings there is no unambiguously universal expression of the traditional Protestant view with respect to gender; the previously-mentioned conditions are not met anywhere in these writings; there is only language which is indefinite, particular, or singular. That means the traditional position must be inferred.

Inferences are of course either deductive, or probabilistic. In order for an inference to be deductive, a condition as broad as the ultimate conclusion must itself be used and met, as in, ‘All X’s whatsoever are Y’s; those objects over there, of which there are one million, are X’s; so they are all Y’s’. This means in order to deduce the traditional view about gender from the biblical writings, a universal condition must be identified in these writings, from which the conclusion may follow. This is an obvious requirement, because the interpretation is universal. However, there is no condition of that kind available.

Inferences which are probabilistic, and which lead to universal conclusions, are weak. They take the form of for example, ‘Many X’s are Y’s; therefore all X’s whatsoever are probably Y’s’. The method used here to reach the conclusion is justifiably open to the criticism that it simply does not do enough to establish its product, as an absolute. If the traditional Protestant view about gender is to be discovered by a proper language-analysis, this is the kind of analysis and interpretation which is necessary. For neither deduction nor the mere identification of a direct, universal expression of the traditional view is possible. And it will have to be freely admitted that the dogma is only established weakly, because of the vague relation between universal interpretation and the linguistic data from which it is drawn.

I think we will search without any success for a traditional Protestant theologian who accepts the old-fashioned position about women’s responsibilities, and who understands these things well, and takes them properly into account. How often are the considerations mentioned above ever raised intelligently and knowledgably, let alone dealt with adequately in the supposed demonstrations made of the traditional view? Yet we have little difficulty in finding teachers in our communions who despite this failing are quite happy to say that they know the traditional obligations according to which all women are meant to live ought to be met. Scholar after scholar merely takes the traditional dogma to be obvious, and offers exposition that other than with respect to grammar and semantics is almost entirely rhetorical, ie. that in important ways bears no resemblance at all to proper language-analysis.

Every time one of our leaders confidently expresses their views on this subject, the scorching words of Nietzsche, who was a philologist by profession, enter the mind: ‘How little Christianity educates the sense of honesty and justice can easily be seen from the writings of its scholars; they advance their conjectures as blandly as dogmas…the Bible is pricked and pulled apart, and the people formally inculcated in the art of reading badly’. Is it possible we might at some future time consider that a view which was mistakenly broad in the responsibilities allowed to women in families and Christian societies would be a hundred times less damaging to us than is the concrete fact that we are prepared to lay down universal rules with a deep practical effect, even though we do not establish them by proper textual analysis? Personally, I think the situation is hopeless.

What excuse have we for such behaviour? Only that we plainly do not realise our vague chat, where sentence-type is not identified, where the number of each sentence is not systematically established, and where the exact nature of the relation between data and interpretation is never revealed, is not a proper analyis, and thus establishes much less, interpretively speaking, than we believe.

Bill ... will our marriage be X so that it equals Y...or might it be X sometimes and then be Y sometimes.. Dunno Calam ...but I'm hoping our sex life adheres to the  formula Y=mc2

Obviously those Toongabbie women are well schooled in the fact that XX does not equal XY...and Y is greater than XXX....and any marriage, happy or unhappy, is infinitely more  interesting than any romance, however passionate.’

Gee Ennis ... does that include marriage rife with alcoholism and DV... I wonder if all them Toongabbie fellas are like Sandy says...and have a proper understanding of headship and submission ... but I've got to say them Toongabbie women are lucky to have David Adams on hand as a safeguard! No wonder same - sex marriage is such a problem for Sydney Anglicans... our chromosomes create an equal equation...and an equal equation is a threat to Sydney Anglican's mathematical social order.

Melbourne Anglican, Andrew McGowan has a different perspective to Sydney Anglicans about...Spouses, Slaves and Submission: Reading Ephesians in the 21st Century

 

Andrew McGowan, who is the President of Trinity College at the University of Melbourne, and a Canon of St Paul's Cathedral Melbourne writes... a marriage service in which wives would promise to "submit" to their husbands, runs counter to the current liturgy authorised in most of the Anglican Church of Australia, where identical vows are offered by both bride and groom...

 Although Archbishop Peter Jensen is reported as saying egalitarianism is a phenomenon of the last 3-4 decades, the "obey" provision was being eased out of Anglican liturgy as long ago as 1928, when a revised Prayer Book was then proposed for the hardly-radical Church of England.

This proposal then illustrates not the real meaning of scripture, but the idiosyncrasies of one part of Anglicanism. Many will perceive dangers for women in these proposals. But there are dangers for the Churches too. If the Bible is seen as the preserve of a fundamentalism not so much genuinely conservative as creatively reactionary, the capacity of Christians to use scripture as a basis for seeking social relations characterised by mutuality, justice and love is compromised for all, not only for the fundamentalists

Sydney Anglican, Sandy Grant, who writes for Matthias Media's, 'The Briefing' says... Jesus told us to expect mockery...not to be surprised at it.

 

..Ennis...I'm like Sandy Grant... I've never been surprised at the hate and malice that has been directed at us over the years...You know all them years we've been jailed, bashed, mocked, persecuted, discriminated against, called perverts and pedophiles ...and not to mention the years we've been excluded from the church....And Peter Jensen has always behaved in the same calm passive aggressive way, of being as condescendingly polite, as a wet fish...(except when he joined GAFCON and his silence then was absolutely deafening)...and forever explaining his Sydney Anglican  views with  such faithfulness, firmness and clarity.

Say Jake...you know how David Ould reckons that if you express concerns about the welfare of a young women vowing to 'submit' in marriage to men who don't mind women submitting...then you don't like the Bible...well does that rationale work in reverse...you know...if you like the Bible then you don't like people?

And let's not forget John 8:1-11... where a woman is caught in adultery. But Jesus says, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. As the accusers all drift away, he adds, “Neither do I condemn you, now go and leave your life of sin.” Jesus showed you could stop people bullying someone, at the same time as disagreeing with their morality.

It seems like Phillip Jensen isn't the only one in need of defense...Archbishop George Pell comes to Peter Jensen's aid.

Archbishop Pell states that Archbishop Peter Jensen... has been in top form lately with his cogent defence of the importance of marriage and his refusal to be bowed, despite some uncivilised displays of intolerance, on the health risks from promiscuity - homosexual or heterosexual...

Christian teaching on sexuality, marriage and family makes good sense in any age, especially ours where the wages of sin are becoming increasingly obvious. Cohabitation, marriage breakdown, increasing stress, anxiety and depression, absent fathers, and more sexually-transmitted disease are not unconnected. They follow from our way of life.

The contraceptive pill, developed in the 1960s, produced profound cultural changes, unleashing a copulation explosion and a population implosion. No Western country produces enough babies to keep the population stable. The Australian fertility rate of 1.89 is far from the worst.

A wife declaring her submission to her husband as one option for Anglican weddings produced a firestorm. A deal of the criticisms came from outside Christian communities; some were heartfelt and genuine while others were less so....

Homosexual marriage is a sideshow despite the heat it creates. No practical legal entitlements follow from its civil recognition, as they have essentially all been won...




 

Truly, Archbishop Jensen....is that really the best defence you could find?...Well arrogance and archbishop do both start with "a"!




Well Calam...it seems like Sydney Anglicans like to gravitate to those who work diligently to promote inequality and discrimination...but are happy to turn a blind - eye to pedophilla... 
Sydney Anglicans must really feel proud... to be a member of GAFCON!